Welcome to Visionary’s Pursuit, a podcast where we explore what it takes to turn your bold and inspiring ideas into reality. I'm Carolina Zuleta. I'm a life and business coach and your host for this podcast. I'm thrilled to have you here.
Hi, and welcome back. This is episode 60 of the Visionaries Pursuit Podcast.
This is the second part of our series on how to have difficult conversations. Before we jump in, I would really appreciate it if you take a moment and follow this podcast and give it a rating. It really goes a long way in supporting us to create free and valuable content every single week.
All right, so now let's jump in. And what I wanna do in this episode is to teach you the step-by-step process I always share with my clients on how to have these difficult conversations. So we're gonna start with the preparation. Before you're gonna have this conversation, you need to prepare.
And the way I recommend preparing is in two different ways. One is very basic. It may even sound obvious, but I have seen people jump this step over and over and it really makes a difference. And that is that you need to let the other person know that you're gonna have a difficult conversation.
So if you're gonna give. Feedback to an employee, or you're going to review a project that maybe didn't go very well, you wanna let the other or the others know that this meeting is about that. And the reason why I recommend this is because one for you, so you walk into the meeting and you don't have the anxiety of what's gonna happen.
How am I gonna tell the other person that we're gonna have this difficult conversation? I'm gonna take them by surprise. How are they gonna feel? But you know that. You have the certainty that the other person is coming to this meeting knowing what's going to happen. And also because when you give a heads up, the other person has a chance to prepare to think about the project, or if they're gonna receive feedback, to put themselves in a state where they can really hear it.
So again, it's basic but crucial. And the other way you're going to prepare is by doing an analysis of what happened. And what you're going to do is you're gonna separate the facts versus the story you're telling yourself. So when things happen in life, there are facts, right? Things that any human being can agree that that's what happened.
It can be anything from the words written in an email, the deadline that was missed, the mistake that was created for a client. There are facts, so the idea is the facts are those things that when you name them in the conversation, the other person will know that they happened.
You will have that in common. You will both agree on the facts. They're not up for discussion. Now, the second part is all the thoughts, the stories that we create around those facts. Let's walk through an example. Let's say you have an employee who you feel is underperforming.
Their role is to be a leader of a team and instead of holding the vision, holding the deadlines, helping the team manage their time and their resources, what they're doing is they're micromanaging, them doing the work instead of training their team members.
And your theory as to why this employee is underperforming is because. They're focusing on the wrong things because maybe they lack the confidence to let go, to prioritize, to delegate. That's your theory, and maybe they haven't been trained to think in a bigger way.
Let's run through an example. Let's say you hired someone to be the manager of one of your teams. And since you hire them, you've missed deadlines for the clients. The work hasn't been at the level you expected it to be. Some of the team members have complained about not having autonomy, about feeling micromanaged, and you wanna give this person feedback. So you're going to first understand that the facts are that deadline that was missed, the work that maybe the client didn't approve of or didn't like, and what you have heard from other employees.
Those are facts. Those are things that you could in theory, bring and prove in a court of law. Then you're gonna think about what is your story? And let's say the meaning you're giving to this situation is that this person is lacking confidence to delegate, they don't have the competencies or the experience in training a team, managing their resources, influencing them, and you have a belief that it's because this person hasn't had as much experience leading from a more strategic place and is trying to do what they know, which is the tactical stuff. That is your story.
So What you wanna do is sit down and write this so you are clear on what are the facts and what is the story. And the last part of the preparation is to understand your intention for giving this feedback. Are you giving this feedback because you believe that? The person you're giving the feedback to. In our example, the employee has the potential of growing, of developing new skills, or are you giving this feedback because you're frustrated, understanding why you're giving the feedback, and what is it that you intend to happen when you give it is also going to set the tone for the conversation. This is your prep. This is the work you're gonna do before the conversation. Now let's jump into the moment where you're sitting with the other person and about to have this conversation.
I recommend that you start a conversation by sharing your intention. Hey, employee, I invited you to this meeting because I'm going to give you some feedback and it might be a little tough to hear, but I want you to know I'm giving it to you because I believe that you have a lot of potential you can develop because my intention is that by sharing with you this feedback, it will help you grow to serve this company better, but also so you can become a better leader for the rest of your career.
Second. This is not something exactly that you're going to do, but it is something to be very mindful of, and it's that safety is required to be able to have an effective conversation. So if you notice that emotions are high, you can name them. If you're noticing the other person angry or sad, you can name it and remind them of your intention so you can create that safety. And also for you, if there is a part of you that is feeling very angry and upset, you might even consider trying this conversation at a different time if possible.
When the emotions are high, we tend to bring up our defenses and that's when safety is broken. So it's important to keep that in mind. Alright, so you shared your intention, you're gonna check for safety throughout the entire conversation, and then you're going to share the facts and then the story.
So going back to our example, you're gonna say something like, as you know with this client, we missed a deadline with this other client. We also meet that deadline. I have heard complaints from the team that they're not feeling autonomous, that they're having to do work very late in the evening, and that they're not very happy with the way they're working right now.
And also, we received these two emails from clients that didn't like our work that much. So these are the things that I want us to talk about. And then you can stop for a moment. You name the facts to hear the response of the other person. They may stay quiet or they may say something like, yeah, I know, I know we missed those deadlines.
Or they might wanna even start defending or explaining why the deadlines were missed. You listen, you can even take notes. You're really present with the other person, and then you share your story. So you can say something like this. So, you know, looking at what has happened in the last three months, I have a theory and I wanna share it with you.
I have a belief that. We have missed deadlines and we haven't produced the best work. Because you are not delegating properly. I know you're great at this, but I think all of your experience has been managing tactical things. Checking things out the to-do list, you doing the work, and I know that it's a transition for leaders to go from doing the work to managing people.
So I think we need to work on your confidence in managing, understanding the strengths of your team, knowing what to delegate, knowing how to communicate that, and then letting go. And when you let go, you need to start prioritizing other things that are more important in your role, which is the relationship with a client, looking at trends, what is happening out there that our competitors are doing so we can incorporate it into how we are managing and the products we're creating for our clients.
And then you ask the question, what do you think about what I said? Or how do you see it? Or what is your theory? And then again, you're gonna go back to listening. Listening is the most underrated ability we have. I really believe this. Most of us listen to respond.
So after you share your story and ask these questions, you go back to listening. Listening, I believe is one of the most underrated abilities we have because most of us, when we're listening, we're listening to see if we agree or disagree.
Sometimes we're not even listening. We're just waiting for the space so we can say something. So in our brains, we're not listening to the other person. We're just thinking about the idea we wanna say out loud or we start listening to find patterns or to see if it reminds us of something else.
True listening. Active listening means that you set your brain into the mode of curiosity of the intention of understanding what the other person is saying not to approve or disapprove, but just to genuinely understand their point of view. I recommend you take notes. You can even be transparent about that.
Hey, if it's okay, I'm gonna take some notes, because sometimes when they say something and we have an idea, we write it down. We can come back to the present moment and continue listening. And the majority of the conversation is gonna happen here. You listening to them, what are their stories? What are their points of views?
Maybe they're gonna give you information that you didn't have, or maybe they're gonna make a very valid point that you are also part of the problem. And if that is the case, and you can see it with curiosity and awareness, apologizing for your part. Goes a long way in building safety.
So maybe in the example we've been playing with, the other person will say, well, I agree with this deadline. That was my mistake, but this other deadline, I want you to remember that you sent me the information with very little notice, and it was just that we didn't have enough time to. Create what we needed to do, so then you can say, you know what?
You are right. That was my fault. I need to make sure that I'm giving you what you need with enough time so we can meet the deadlines. It's as simple as that. You don't have to apologize in a very dramatic way, but taking responsibility in those moments for your actions builds trust, credibility, safety.
And it also demonstrates how to receive feedback and how to be a leader. Leaders have that ability to receive feedback, process it, and own their part.
So, this is gonna be the majority of the conversation, both of you listening to each other, agreeing on what happened, agreeing on what is the source of the mistake, or what is the thing that we need to change or fix. As you're moving on in the conversation and you're getting that clarity, you wanna start moving into an action plan.
So conversations that end up in, okay? Yeah. Thank you for the feedback. We're done. The probability that that feedback is gonna get implemented is a lot less.
So you wanna end the meeting with clarity. What are the actions the other person is gonna take? And if there's any actions you need to take.
So again, going back to our example, let's say that person tells you, I am going to start carving out time in my agenda to look at the bigger picture, to work on the relationships with your clients. I really hear what you're telling me, and you're right.
It does make me nervous sometimes to let go of that. Tactics of the day-to-day stuff. I'm gonna sit with everyone in the team and ask for feedback as well because I wanna understand how I can best use everyone. And, we're gonna make sure that all the work that we have for the next several months, we're gonna complete it on time.
Again, this is a little bit general because we're making up this example, but having concrete steps that both of you are going to take to improve. What happened is what's gonna make this feedback, not just be a story, a conversation, but a way that you're applying it and improving your relationship, improving whatever is happening at work or even in your personal life,
And obviously, right, we have these difficult conversations because we're creating outcomes for our business. When we have action plans, steps, that also guides us to meet our goals, to be successful in the business we're running.
Now there is one more step that is after you wrap up the conversation, I always recommend either having the other person send you an email or you sending an email with the agreements. I agree to do A, B, C, and you're going to do X, Y, Z. Because when we have it in writing, first of all, it creates accountability, but also that becomes a fact that in case you need to have a second conversation, you can go back to the email and say, what we both agreed upon, and it's very clear for everyone.
You send that email and I also recommend you take some time to reflect what worked during that conversation, what didn't work? Oftentimes my clients come back after having one of those difficult conversations, and they might not be feeling great because the other person didn't receive the feedback in the way they intended to, or because there were a lot of emotions or because they're worried, they hurt the other person's feelings.
They made them feel bad sometimes they're worried they're gonna quit. And I think we need to address all that. But the point I wanna make here is that when you finish one of those conversations and you're doing an evaluation, a reflection on how did it go? I want you to put the success measure a hundred percent on you.
Did you stay calm? Did you create safety? Did you take responsibility? Did you say everything you wanted to say? Were you reactive? Were you triggered by something the other person said and why? When someone comes back and tells me they got triggered, I love it because I know that every time we get triggered, there is something for us to develop, something for us to heal or to grow that will end up making us better leaders.
So the evaluation is the last step in a difficult conversation. Why I recommend doing evaluations is because. They help us get better, even if it's five minutes on your phone in a piece of paper that you're writing, what worked, what didn't work? What do I wanna do differently next time?
That consciousness, that intention, is what's gonna allow you and encourage you to do better every single time. And like anything, having difficult conversations is something that we get better through time. And, each person that we have it with is gonna teach us something new.
Our mistakes are gonna teach us where we don't wanna go. Our emotions are gonna teach us on how to manage them better. But taking that moment to evaluate, that's how we can grow and develop.
The last thing I wanna do is share a couple of thoughts I have about how to have difficult conversations. The first one is when a conversation didn't go well, and usually that happens because they're hard, they're tough, their emotions.
So when my clients come back and they're discouraged, you know, they didn't understand my point. They're upset because I said X, Y, or z. I remind them that relationships happen over time. That this is not about having a single battle, but it's a campaign.
The relationships that are worth fighting for require many, many difficult conversations. I have two clients, they're business partners, and I've been coaching them since before they started this business. And one of the practices they've incorporated in their business is that every month they scheduled an hour, an hour and a half and they named that meeting hard stuff chat. So what they do is they come to the meeting prepared with the facts and their stories about each other, about ask aspects of the business, and they give that feedback.
Every month they're talking about what's working, what's not working, and they're not holding things because they're scared of hurting the other person's feelings. They're willing to hurt the other person's feelings because they both understand that if they want this business to be successful, their partnership is at the core, it's most important.
If their relationship starts breaking. Then forget it, that business is gonna suffer. And they also understand that having hard conversations is the way you stay clear, you stay transparent, you stay up to date with the other person instead of harboring resentments or starting to not want to work with the other person and they do a beautiful job, sometimes they invite me so I can be a coach in the middle. Help translate what one is saying so the other person can fully understand and really I can see how in the couple of years they've been running this business together, their relationship has gotten stronger and each of them has become a better leader because of the feedback they receive from one another. So remember, difficult conversations are not just a single battle, they're a campaign, and it's worth having them over and over again. Even if you're repeating the same topic, you value the relationship enough to go through that discomfort.
The second tip I wanna talk about is around hurting other people's feelings. So when I'm coaching a client to have a difficult conversation, the concern is that the other person is gonna feel hurt or it's gonna get mad, or they're gonna have a reaction they don't like. I want to name two things: first, is to remember that all of our emotions are created by our thoughts. And why this is important is to understand that you cannot control the other person's reaction.
Their emotions hurt, fear , anger, anxiety are coming from their brain, so of course it doesn't mean that you're gonna go there and yell and be disrespectful. But if you are going in there trying to control how the other person is feeling, you are not gonna be able to be truthful, honest, and transparent.
Plus, you've seen this, you know, you think about when you go to a concert with friends. Every single person has a different feeling about the concert. Some love them, some are like, Hmm, okay. And maybe there's someone who didn't love it. Why? Because what we feel comes from how we perceive the world. So, of course, be respectful.
That's why in the evaluation, the success measure is you, how respectful you were. Did you create safety? Did you speak your truth? And not in how the other person reacted because really that's something you cannot control a hundred percent.
And the other part I remind them is that you don't wanna hurt the other person's feelings. I mean, because you're a good human being and you don't wanna hurt other people, but a lot of the time it's because you yourself are uncomfortable with difficult emotions.
I have clients who have told me things like, I'm not good with tears. You know, I'm not touchy feely like that. If we do this work in understanding their emotions, our data, that emotions are part of our human experience, that tears are just a way of expressing an emotion, and we grow our ability to be with bigger and bigger emotions. We can create more safety and certainty and have a bigger impact in the people we're talking to.
So if you wanna master having difficult conversations, a part of your work is gonna be learning and understanding your emotions. Understanding what each emotion is trying to say. And being okay with people around you being mad, being okay with people around you, even having tears.
When we embrace that humanity and we just see emotions as data, we become masterful leaders. We can influence people in a much more effective way.
As I mentioned earlier, safety is key. So a lot of the times we're having this difficult conversation and we're starting to see the other person have a reaction in which they're not. Really trusting us that they're not seeing us as someone who is helping them or that has the intention of helping them be better, but they're seeing us as the enemy.
Or maybe we're starting to notice that we are getting triggered. The best thing to do there is to name it, Hey, you know what? This conversation is triggering me and I don't wanna allow my emotions to drive me. So maybe let's take a break and let's reconvene at a later time where we both can have a better conversation or, Hey, I noticed this is really triggering for you. I see you upset. Do you wanna talk about that?
And you can give them a space to talk about it. And also you can also make the decision to, let's stop here. Let's each go for a walk. Cool. Down. And then let's come back to the conversation. If you break safety, the information you're trying to convey is not gonna be heard, so always make sure safety is there and when it's not, naming it, and making a decision of what you wanna do when it feels unsafe.
The last step I wanna add is something that I learned from one of my teachers of all this personal work stuff that really stuck with me, he described it by explaining what happens when we break a bone in our body. So when we break a bone and it heals and it reattaches the part through which the bone broke grows even stronger than before the bone broke.
And then he said it's the same thing with relationships. When we have breaks in our relationships, maybe we hurt the other person's feeling. Maybe there was a misunderstanding.
Maybe we said something we didn't intend to say. But we make that time to repair and heal the relationship. The relationship is gonna be stronger than before the break happened.
So I don't think the intention should be, let's break relationships. It doesn't matter. But also the belief can't be that everyone is so fragile. I think we all have the ability to be heard, to be upset, and to then have awareness to learn something about it, to take responsibility, to forgive.
Think about a relationship. Maybe it's with someone in your family, or even maybe a peer or a coworker in which you had a difficult time. There was a misunderstanding. Both of you were hurt, both of you were upset, but you put the time and the intention to heal that relationship, to really understand where each of you were coming from to understand how you were behaving, why you were triggered, and think about how much closer you feel to the other person after you've gone through that process, because of course, you peeled a layer in which you got to know each other better. And I think this is also true for work relationships, not just personal relationships.
So those are the steps for having a difficult conversation. And if you listen to both episodes, you really have a sense of why this is such an important skill to develop that it's not something we have to be incredibly scared of. Even if it's uncomfortable, we all have it within to be in those tough moments, to feel uncomfortable emotions and to be present with another person when they are having difficult emotions.
All of this is part of being a strong leader, a strong business founder, a confident business founder, a person that can navigate all kinds of situations. So remember, the measure of your leadership is how you show up when the stakes are high. I hope this is valuable. I hope you put it in practice.
If you wanna share with me your thoughts or reactions about these two last episodes, or you wanna share ways in which you've applied these steps, I would really love to hear back from all of you.
My email is info (at) Carolinazuleta (dot) com. Feel free to drop me a note. All right, I'll see you next time. Bye.
If you're currently pursuing a big, bold idea and would love some support, let's talk. In my coaching program, I'll teach you how to manage yourself, your own thoughts and emotions. as well as your team and your money so you can turn your beautiful idea into a reality. Go now to carozuleta.com slash consult that is c a r o z u l e t a dot com slash consult and complete the form to book a complimentary call with me.
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