When you need something from someone, do you make your request smaller, or do you get bigger, louder, and more forceful? As visionaries, asking for what we need from others is a key skill, but how we ask matters. Today we're exploring kind assertiveness, how to set boundaries and speak clearly while keeping your warmth, because standing up for yourself doesn't have to mean you leave your kindness behind.
I'm Carolina Zuleta. This is the Visionary's Pursuit podcast.
I remember when we were in business school, one of our professors saying, "Guys, you're too worried about the next exam, about memorizing things. That's not what's gonna be challenging when you get out in the real world. What's gonna be the hardest part is people."
And 15 years later, working with so many business founders, leaders, executives, visionaries, I've proven that to be true. Because when we have an idea, when there's something we wanna accomplish, we can never do it by ourselves. We always need other people to join us, and we need to develop skills like influence, conflict management, learning to ask for what we want, setting boundaries, saying no, firing, hiring.
All those skills that we call soft skills are really the hardest skills we have as leaders. and are actually the hardest skills for us to develop as leaders
I'm currently working with a client who's facing a real leadership challenge She's having issues with the board. She's having issues with her peers. She has walked into a very toxic culture where people say something in a meeting but then say something else behind her back.
I would say objectively, it's one of those very hard situations to navigate. And with her, we've been talking about being more assertive, being more clear in her asks, setting boundaries, saying no, holding people accountable.
But throughout her entire career, she has prided herself on being someone who is very warm and caring and that people like her
And so many times she has felt conflicted because she feels that if she actually acts assertively and says no to someone or calls them out, she's leaving behind that part of her that she really likes, that it's her warmth and her sweetness and her caring
and I think so many of us face that dilemma in many different situations. When I think of some of my other clients that are very comfortable being more assertive and saying no but sometimes can be more aggressive or can dismiss people easily, or not make them feel respected and treated with kindness.
But their belief is, "Well, if I'm kind, then people are gonna walk all over me, and they're not gonna hear, and I just need to be more aggressive in order for people to do what I want them to do." And what I wanna bring today is that these two opposite views are both wrong. There is a way for us to maintain our kindness, our care for others, and hold boundaries, and say no, and hold people accountable.
About 13 years ago, my husband Andrew and I did a year-long leadership and self-development course in an institute. And one of the things that became very clear to me while I was there is that I needed to work on my relationship to my anger and to being assertive and to being more direct. And I started working on it very consciously, asking for what I needed, saying no.
But at the same time, I felt so conflicted all the time because it didn't feel like it was me, because my natural state is to be warm and kind and friendly with people. So it was an ongoing conversation with Andrew about this struggle I was feeling inside. During that same time, we were at Andrew's house when he opened his bank account and he saw all of his money was missing.
Zero. There was nothing in the account. And like any human being, he got super worried and stressed and immediately called the bank. And I'm sitting next to him also worried, and the way he spoke to that woman was an incredible lesson to me. So he said something around the lines of, "Hi." He explained what was going on, but at some point he told this woman, "Listen, I bet your job is really hard.
I bet you're constantly receiving calls from people that are upset with the bank, who are scared, who are mad, and that cannot be very pleasant. And I wanna tell you, I'm also scared, but I'm not against you, and I need your help right now. And I need you to look at what's going on, and if there's more people that we need to bring into this phone call, let's not wait.
Let's call them right now. Let's have them join us, because I think we can figure this out. But I'm not against you. I just need us to work as a team to solve this."
And there I am sitting next to him, looking at him and wondering, how could he do that? How can in the middle of being honestly in a situation that would make anyone so upset and angry, be calm and kind, and yet ask for what he needed and demand the attention that he required in that moment? Long story short, they had stolen his ID, they had stolen his money, but he was able to get everything back, thankfully.
But the point is, it really got me thinking. And then in a conversation with him, he came up with a term that I've used since then. So for over ten, twelve years, this is a term that has been in our conversations, my conversations with my clients, and it's called kind assertiveness.
Let me break down what kind assertiveness means. So if we look at assertiveness, assertiveness means expressing your needs, feelings, opinions and boundaries clearly and directly. Kindness is showing care, consideration and goodwill towards others. It's being attentive to their feelings, to their needs and to their dignity.
So when we think about kind assertiveness, it's not about making a request small. It's not about apologizing for something we need or we want. It's still expressing that need or that opinion or that boundary clearly, but doing it while at the same time we are showing care for the other human being.
And Andrew's call to that bank is the perfect example of that. He asked for what he needed, but he was able to have empathy for the person who was receiving the call and understand what her situation was and connect and blend those two together
And listen, this is something that it's easier said than done. I try to practice it every day of my life, but it is hard, and I wanna explain why being kind and assertive at the same time is hard. But to do that, we need to understand the difference between being nice and being kind. when we are nice, what we are prioritizing is being pleasant, is avoiding friction, is avoiding discomfort When we're being nice, what we're trying to do is for the other person to like us.
And I'm gonna have a hot take here. I think being nice is being manipulative. we're nice when we're trying to keep peace, when we're aiming for the other person to like us, but we're not being honest.
We're not speaking our truth. We're not asking for what we really want or setting the boundary that really we mean to set.
niceness many times is hiding the truth to preserve our reputation or lying to keep everyone comfortable. That's very different from kindness. Kindness, yes, it includes care, but it also includes honesty. And kindness can accept the discomfort that comes from a moment in which we may not be in agreement or when our truth may create a tension between me and the other person
Kindness is willing to sacrifice our reputation, our comfort in order to be able to speak the truth, to be seen for who we are, to be heard and known for the authentic person we are.
Now, when we're being kind, it means that we are accepting discomfort. But what it doesn't mean is that we're being intentionally mean or hurtful to someone else
Since Andrew shared with me that term, kind assertiveness, many years ago, I've also been looking at the world and finding examples of how people use this, how great leaders use this. And I wanna share some of these examples with you because I think they illustrate what I'm trying to say.
Two or three years ago, I went to see Jane Goodall speak, and it was a huge event. It was in a theater that had probably 1,500 people. We had all waited patiently in line. We had sat down. The event started, and they had these musicians playing at first and some other people talking, and you could feel that everyone was anxious to hear her.
We had already been waiting for hours, and she still wasn't on stage. So, you know, as a speaker, I would imagine that you're feeling the pressure to deliver, to give an amazing presentation to everyone that's been waiting to see you. So finally she comes on stage and she stands at the podium, and she doesn't even say, "Good evening everyone."
She doesn't say anything to us in the audience. What she says is to those of you who are helping with this event, could you please turn on the lights on the audience?
I do not like speaking to the darkness. Silence. The seconds seem to be so long. Nothing is happening. No one's turning on the lights, and she's just standing there calmly, looking to the audience, waiting.
After what it seemed like minutes, but it was probably seconds, she said again, " I will not start my talk until I can see the audience. Can someone please help me and turn on the lights on the audience?" And then she was quiet again, and my jaw dropped. How can you hold the tension of having over 1,500 people waiting for you to speak, to still ask for what is important to you, and doing it in such a gentle and kind way?
She didn't yell. She didn't treat anyone as incompetent. I would imagine that she probably had already made this request to the team before she stepped on stage, and still she waited.
Thankfully, they turned on the lights and she started the talk, and she was amazing.
After she spoke for 30 or 40 minutes, we moved on to the Q&A part of the event. So they brought out some chairs, and she sat there with the person who was gonna interview her. And it was obvious to all of us that the man who was going to interview her was really nervous. He had some papers in his hand, and you can almost see them shake. So he starts reading his papers, probably the questions he had prepared, and asks her the first question. And what she does is she extends her hand, put it on top of the papers he was holding and brought them down and said, " could you please look me in the eyes when you ask these questions? And the man was like, "Oh, yeah, yeah, of course." So he put the papers to the side. But once again, I was in awe.
She was sweet, she was kind, but she was clear and articulate in her request. She didn't apologize for her request. She didn't justify her ask. She did explain why. She said, Hey, look me in the eyes because I value person-to-person connection.
And again, my jaw dropped. Wow, this is leadership. This is kind assertiveness. We can ask for what we want. We can make people feel uncomfortable for our requests, and yet we can do it with care and respect and holding the dignity of the other person I want you to take a moment and think about all the places where you can practice kind assertiveness.
And I'm thinking about my clients, my clients who need to influence people that are not their direct reports, people who might have different values or a different urgency that they have, and how they use kind assertiveness to ask for what they want, to explain why they need it, to explain the urgency and why that urgency matters while holding other people with respect.
I think of my clients when they're hiring people, when they're firing people, when they're setting expectations with their team or with the board or with investors, and how important is to learn this magic of being kind and assertive.
A few months ago, I had to let go someone, from our team, and I think firing and letting people go is one of the hardest things we do as leaders, especially because I knew this person's personal situation, and I know that not having a job was a big deal for this person.
And yet, after multiple rounds of feedback, this person was not performing their job like we needed them to perform it. So I was nervous. I was shaking. I was worried. I had, a knot in my stomach. But I really thought about being kind and assertive, and I practiced with Andrew what I was gonna say, and I think it went really well.
It wasn't easy, but it went well. here's what I did. I approached this person and I said, "Hey, we're gonna have one of those conversations that is not fun or easy. Can we please sit down?" Immediately, I could see that their face was worried. They were, you know, scared.
I said, " as you know, we've sat multiple times and I've given you feedback about this job and what the expectations are of you, and you are not meeting them." And I gave her some examples. A, B, C, these are things that have not improved, and we do need someone that can perform their job at the level we expect it to be performed, so today is gonna be your last day. We're gonna end your contract today.
Andrew and I also believe in being very generous when we let someone go. So we had created an incredible package for her, so she had some time to be at home to process this and to go find another job. And I explained all the conditions. I then asked, "Do you have any questions?"
at that moment, I think she was shocked. She said, "No." And I said, "My doors are open. If at any point you have any other questions, you can call me, you can email me. I still hold you in high regard, and I'm very grateful for the work you did do for us, But I walked away from that conversation feeling that I had practiced kind assertiveness, that in one of the worst moments in a job, I held her with dignity, and I was honest and clear about why we're making this decision. And she left, of course, unhappy, I think she didn't agree with me, which is okay. And that's why kindness accepts discomfort, and kindness also accepts vulnerability. Kindness doesn't see vulnerability as weakness. And vulnerability is to stay with our hearts open even when we wanna close off, even when we wanna run away, even when we wanna be harsh in that moment because we're protecting our feelings
And of course, the communication and the way you express what you're saying changes depending on the person. It's different when I was talking with this employee who's a junior employee versus if I was asking something from the lawyer or from the bank Or when a client comes with a request.
You know, some weeks ago, I had a client send me a message because she wanted me to do something for her That meant I had to break my own policies and agreements I make with my clients at the beginning. And it was hard, again, because I love my clients so much and this is a business, and I am a professional, and I have some agreements and policies in place because I've designed them that way because I think it's the best for the business, for me, for the clients, for our relationships.
So I said, "No. I'm sorry, but I'm not gonna make that exception." And she was so brave to ask again. And I totally understood where she was coming from, and I named it. But again, I said no. I'm sharing it with all of you today, I feel the discomfort what I'm trying to say here is that, you know, I gave you some examples, the Jane Goodall example, the Andrew example with the bank, my example firing this employee.
And not to say that that's exactly the language you have to use, but it's to illustrate the idea that you can be assertive, hold your boundaries, say no, ask for what you want in a direct and clear way while still caring for the other person, having empathy for the other person's experience. Both of those things are compatible and for those of you who your challenge is to be more direct, more assertive, set clear boundaries, I want you to know that you don't have to stop being yourself. You don't have to let go of your warmth and your care in order to do that. And for those of you who feel that if you become more warm or gentle in your ask, people are not gonna respect your ask, that's also not true We can all practice kinder assertiveness, ask for what we want, state our needs and our opinions, while at the same time having care and concern for the other.
Using kind assertiveness doesn't mean that everyone will be happy with the outcome. People might be disappointed, frustrated, upset with you But you're not gonna be aiming to control other people's feelings and thoughts. You're gonna focus your control on your own experience, did I speak my truth? Did I say it in a respectful way? Was I gentle? Did I have empathy? Was I clear? And It also doesn't mean that you're always gonna get it right. This is a skill we learn through practice, through making mistakes, through repairing. But with time, if we are intentional about being assertive and kind, I think we can figure it out.
This is stepping into the belief that I can care about your experience and still stand behind what I need. All right, my friends, I'll see you next week. Bye.
